Sep 5, 2026 · 56 min
AI growth and Bitcoin converge in a high-rate economy
Bitcoin Is Entering Its Most Powerful Wave Ever | Jordi Visser
The discussion tests whether monetary expansion, accelerating automation, and new crypto applications can sustain asset growth while exposing the economy to sharper systemic risks.
- 1Elevated interest rates may coexist with AI-led growth, but oil shocks, cyberattacks, valuations, and infrastructure remain vulnerabilities.
- 2Visser frames Bitcoin’s potential breakout as a powerful third wave supported by broader participation and programmable financial applications.
- 3AI agents could reshape productivity, employment, research, and management while forcing clearer accountability across human and automated teams.
Don't miss
Visser links Bitcoin’s possible third wave to AI agents, programmable financial applications, and broader participation rather than crypto speculation alone.
The brief
Jordi Visser argues that nominal growth and interest rates can remain elevated without derailing an AI-driven economy, though oil shocks, cyberattacks, valuations, and infrastructure could break the thesis.
The conversation challenges simple monetary-expansion stories by separating money-supply growth from asset values and leverage, then turns to automation’s operational and liability problems.
Visser sees Bitcoin approaching a potentially powerful third wave around the $82,000 technical level, with skepticism and broader community participation making the rally more durable.
AI agents emerge as the episode’s larger structural shift: they may accelerate productivity, alter employment expectations, create crypto connections, and demand clearer delegation and oversight.
The hosts close on AI-assisted research and the value of friction, arguing that comparing perspectives improves analysis while limits on compute and infrastructure may slow destabilizing change.
What was said on this episode
34 statements · 21 positive · 7 negative · 2 mixed · 4 neutral
Crypto is entering its most powerful Elliott Wave phase.
“we're entering a third wave, a big, the most powerful wave in crypto”
Listen at 0:58
Interest rates should rise because nominal GDP exceeds 6%.
“The rate should be going higher because nominal GDP is over 6%.”
Listen at 2:45
A 200-basis-point yield increase barely changes Anthropic and OpenAI margins.
“a 200 basis point rise in 10 year yields doesn't change the margins for anthropic or open AI by very much”
Listen at 4:42
A 200-basis-point rise reduces margins from roughly 70% to 69%.
“It's about from, let's say, 70% to 69%, 200 basis points.”
Listen at 4:50
Interest rates will matter less to the economy than historically.
“rates are just not going to be as important as they've been in the past”
Listen at 6:10
Gradual rate increases will not materially affect the economy.
“If it happens slowly over time, no, to me, it's not going to have an impact.”
Listen at 8:06
Higher rates cleanse the economy, making recession necessary.
“The reason rates go higher is because they cleanse the system and a recession is needed.”
Listen at 9:07
Corporate earnings are currently growing at 30%.
“earnings are growing 30%”
Listen at 10:18
A 25-basis-point Fed increase will not materially change current economic conditions.
“A 25 basis point increase by the Fed is not going to change any of the things that I just talked about.”
Listen at 11:46
Equity valuation multiples will continue compressing.
“I think the multiples are going to keep compressing”
Listen at 12:33
Cyberattacks will worsen equity valuation compression.
“I think cyber worsens that situation.”
Listen at 12:38
Investors should favor scarce assets embraced by AI agents but not humans.
“I want to be long things that agents embrace, but humans don't.”
Listen at 14:36
AI will create stronger deflationary pressure than widely recognized.
“the deflationary pressures from AI are far more extreme than people realize”
Listen at 17:40
Government money creation will continue while asset values lag behind.
“I think what's going to happen over time is we have to separate the money printing happening at the government level”
Listen at 18:04
The financial system will undergo deleveraging.
“the deleveraging is going to happen”
Listen at 18:31
Tokenization will broaden access to investment opportunities.
“I think tokenization is going to make this something that everyone can invest in.”
Listen at 21:25
Bitcoin must break $82,000 before reaching $100,000.
“For it to get to 100,000, one thing I know for sure, it's got to break 82,000.”
Listen at 24:03
Crypto is entering a powerful third Elliott Wave.
“I believe from an Elliott Wave perspective, we're entering a third wave, a big, the most powerful wave in crypto.”
Listen at 25:46
Billions of AI agents will exist within a year.
“Billions of them a year from now.”
Listen at 28:19
AI and crypto are now becoming integrated through agents.
“We're at that agentic point and we're connecting AI to crypto.”
Listen at 28:38
Investors should be more bullish on crypto than ever.
“people should be more bullish now than ever”
Listen at 28:46
Crypto should perform better because rates are suppressed.
“crypto should be doing better”
Listen at 30:06
People should understand both AI and crypto to stay ahead.
“whatever I've said in the past about how important it is to be on top of AI. I think the same thing holds for crypto at this point”
Listen at 32:54
AI agents cannot operate effectively on traditional financial rails.
“Agents can't do anything on the old rails. It doesn't work.”
Listen at 33:29
AI agents will increase productivity far more than people expect.
“I think agents are going to increase productivity in such a big way that people are underestimating”
Listen at 35:58
AI agents will transform the entire economy within 12 months.
“agents will be changing the entire economy over the course of the next 12 months”
Listen at 37:47
AI agents operate continuously and remain available at all times.
“they never sleep and they're always available”
Listen at 41:36
Comparing seven authors is better for learning than relying on one source.
“finding a topic that you're interested in and having seven different authors give you their opinion on that and then you go through the bits and pieces is a much better way to learn”
Listen at 43:59
People should embrace AI because it saves time and improves intelligence.
“Embrace AI. It will make you smarter. It will save you time.”
Listen at 46:59
AI has reached benchmark intelligence capable of replacing all human jobs.
“when the intelligence gets to a level that it can replace all. human jobs based on that intelligence. And it did score on that level”
Listen at 51:12
Current constraints on AI development are beneficial because progress is too fast.
“friction is good right now. The speed is too fast.”
Listen at 51:51
Physical AI adoption will lag behind its technical capability.
“the adoption of, especially the physical AI side is going to take, is going to take long, more than the capability”
Listen at 52:28
Global financial tokenization cannot be stopped and will occur.
“there's no way to stop this. It's going to happen.”
Listen at 55:24
Diversified investors should allocate some portfolio weight to crypto.
“You can't have a 0% weighting as an investor that is truly diversified in crypto.”
Listen at 55:27
Statements are attributed to the speaker as said on the episode and reflect their view at the time, not PodLume's. They are not advice.