Dec 16, 2025 · 44 min
AI power demands collide with industrial growth and consumer credit
Mad Money w/ Jim Cramer 12/15/25
The episode connects household borrowing, industrial-gas demand, AI infrastructure losses, and the electricity constraints shaping data-center investment.
- 1Affirm’s Max Levchin presents proprietary underwriting and fee-conscious lending as alternatives to traditional credit-card economics.
- 2Linde’s Sanjeev Lamba links disciplined capital allocation and resilient end markets to growth across industry, data centers, and commercial space.
- 3The AI-stock selloff exposes a broader infrastructure question: how quickly hyperscalers can secure affordable electricity.
Don't miss
Sanjeev Lamba explains how Linde’s industrial-gas business supports data-center construction and commercial-space activity while maintaining its growth algorithm.
The brief
Jim Cramer moves from consumer products and household finance to the infrastructure behind AI, using interviews and stock calls to connect everyday spending with capital-intensive growth.
Affirm CEO Max Levchin argues that proprietary credit scoring and underwriting can make lending more consumer-friendly, while the company expands in the United Kingdom through Shopify.
Linde CEO Sanjeev Lamba defends the company’s growth algorithm—pricing, productivity, capital allocation, and project backlog—as industrial demand extends into data centers and commercial space.
The episode’s sharpest tension arrives in the AI-stock selloff: Cramer sees broad technology baskets weighing on Snowflake, while hyperscalers still need power quickly and cheaply.
Cramer questions whether new nuclear plants can meet immediate data-center demand, turning electricity supply into a central investment issue rather than a distant constraint.
What was said on this episode
54 statements · 34 positive · 17 negative · 3 neutral
Cramer identifies Procter & Gamble as his favorite current technology stock.
“my favorite tech stock is Procter & Gamble”
Listen at 0:41
Procter & Gamble uses AI to improve its supply chain.
“Procter & Gamble used AI to fix the supply chain”
Listen at 1:38
Business technology users will increasingly cut costs and accelerate product launches through purchased technology.
“I think these companies will increasingly be given a chance to buy amazing tech that will help them cut costs and bring new products to market much faster than ever”
Listen at 1:57
Cramer assesses Procter & Gamble as currently inexpensive.
“Procter, though? It's already so cheap.”
Listen at 2:41
Amazon Web Services is Amazon’s core business.
“AWS is now the core business”
Listen at 3:18
Amazon must spend extremely heavily to remain competitive in AI.
“The amount of money they need to spend to keep up with their competitors in the race for AI supremacy is insane.”
Listen at 3:36
Meta’s stock performance has exceeded Amazon’s year-to-date performance.
“Meta's interesting. It's up almost 11% for the year. Not much, but better than Amazon.”
Listen at 3:56
Reducing AI investment could expose Meta to OpenAI competition in social media.
“If Meta takes its foot off the pedal, then OpenAI might start coming in after them in the social media space.”
Listen at 4:27
Microsoft holds an exceptionally strong position in business technology.
“Microsoft's an unassailable position”
Listen at 5:41
Google is expected to pay Apple to make Gemini its default AI chatbot.
“I now expect Google will also pay Apple to make Gemini their default AI chatbot.”
Listen at 6:23
Google’s potential Apple deal could prevent OpenAI from competing effectively.
“At that point, even OpenAI playing with other people's money may not be able to compete.”
Listen at 6:30
Alphabet appears to be the only major technology winner currently.
“Alphabet's the only one that seems to be winning.”
Listen at 7:30
Cramer says no artificial-intelligence stock bubble is currently forming.
“there's no bubble brewing”
Listen at 7:43
Cramer recommends buying Procter & Gamble immediately.
“I think it's worth buying right here, right now”
Listen at 8:06
Cramer predicts Verizon’s recent decline may continue.
“Verizon is down 5%, and I think in the last six months, and I think that that decline may just be getting started.”
Listen at 8:46
Effective underwriting allows lenders to avoid charging late fees.
“If you get really good at underwriting, you don't have to charge late fees.”
Listen at 11:03
Affirm says its users have paid no late fees or revolving interest.
“None of them have ever paid us a penny of late fees or revolving interest.”
Listen at 12:34
Levchin supports extending a borrowing-rate cap nationally.
“extending that nationally wouldn't be a bad idea”
Listen at 13:51
Affirm uses a proprietary credit score developed and refined over 15 years.
“computed a proprietary score that we designed here and have perfected, I would argue, for the last 15 years.”
Listen at 15:12
Levchin says serious consumer-friendly underwriting requires a proprietary model.
“there's no substitute for building your own model”
Listen at 17:07
Affirm is using the United Kingdom as its international expansion base.
“UK is sort of the staging ground.”
Listen at 18:08
Levchin predicts Affirm’s UK business will become very significant.
“We have a lot of conviction around UK. We think it's going to be a very big deal.”
Listen at 18:27
Affirm reported 47% year-over-year travel growth during Black Friday and Cyber Monday.
“Black Friday, Cyber Monday, we saw 47% year-over-year growth in just travel.”
Listen at 19:23
Affirm reported more than 75% year-over-year growth in Gen Z travel.
“Growth year-over-year is 75-plus percent year-over-year.”
Listen at 19:32
Affirm reported over 70% growth in zero-percent loans year over year.
“we saw more than average 70 plus percent growth year over year”
Listen at 20:25
Affirm’s holiday consumers are price-conscious and seeking deals.
“they are price conscious, they're looking for deals.”
Listen at 20:50
Cramer recommends buying Broadcom after its decline.
“You're getting a real nice buying opportunity now.”
Listen at 22:36
Oracle’s stock has steadily declined since its September peak.
“Oracle's stock has been steadily sliding lower since it peaked in September”
Listen at 22:54
Oracle’s free cash flow has become negative as investment spending increased.
“their free cash flow has turned negative”
Listen at 23:37
Oracle’s five-year credit-default-swap cost has more than tripled since September.
“the cost of Oracle's five-year CDS. that's credit default swaps, has more than tripled since September.”
Listen at 27:02
Cramer expects Broadcom to remain fundamentally sound.
“I think Broadcom will be fine”
Listen at 27:37
Cramer says investors have better data-center investments than Oracle.
“If you want to bet on the data center story, there are a lot of better ways to do it.”
Listen at 27:47
Cramer remains positive on the broader AI data-center expansion.
“Ultimately, I remain positive on the broader AI data center build out.”
Listen at 27:52
Cramer advises caution toward AI data-center companies with weak finances.
“I think you need to be careful. Some of these companies associated with the AI data center trade, especially those with suboptimal balance sheets or credit ratings.”
Listen at 29:26
Linde’s business algorithm is intact and supports over 10% long-term EPS growth.
“That algorithm is absolutely intact. That's what gives 10 plus percent EPS growth over the long term.”
Listen at 31:23
Linde is executing more than $10 billion of project backlog.
“we're executing more than 10 billion of project backlog”
Listen at 31:31
Linde’s capital allocation contributes 4%–6% EPS growth.
“the algorithm delivers 4% to 6% EPS growth”
Listen at 32:29
Linde’s capital allocation and management actions together produce 8%–12% EPS growth.
“Those two together, 8% to 12%.”
Listen at 32:49
More than 35% of Linde’s end markets are resilient categories.
“more than 35% of our end markets are what we call resilient end markets”
Listen at 33:44
Linde’s resilient end markets are expected to grow mid- to high-single digits quarterly.
“I expect to grow between mid-single digit to high single digit every quarter.”
Listen at 33:59
Lamba believes Linde offers long-term compounding benefits to investors.
“I believe in its long-term future and a compounding benefit that Lindy provides to its investors.”
Listen at 35:26
Linde supports more than three-fourths of rocket launches with fuel.
“more than three-fourths of all launches are supported by Lindy as fuel”
Listen at 36:07
Cramer prefers Cardinal Health over Cencora.
“I like Sencora a lot, but I got to tell you, I think this Cardinal Health's got them all beat.”
Listen at 37:40
Cramer recommends selling BP stock immediately.
“You should sell it before you hang up for me.”
Listen at 38:07
Hyperscalers urgently need abundant, inexpensive electricity.
“The hyperscalers desperately need more electricity right now. Ideally, they need it cheap.”
Listen at 38:59
Fermi’s stock lost 44% over two trading sessions.
“The stock has lost 44% of its value over the past two trading sessions.”
Listen at 40:17
Nuclear-related stocks are priced on outcomes expected in 10–20 years.
“they're trading based on what might happen in 10 to 15 years, maybe 20.”
Listen at 40:32
Oklo’s proposed fission reactors could operate using nuclear waste.
“Oclo's about fission reactors that could run on nuclear waste.”
Listen at 40:44
Cramer assesses Oklo’s nearly $13 billion valuation and 288% gain as excessive.
“this is a nearly $13 billion company with a stock that's up 288% your day. Okay, people, that's absurd.”
Listen at 40:54
NuScale Power is attempting to build small-scale nuclear reactors.
“new-scale power, which is trying to build small-scale nuclear reactors.”
Listen at 41:12
Cramer recommends GE Vernova over newer small-reactor companies.
“After all, if you want to build a small-scale nuclear reactor, why not just go with GE Vernova”
Listen at 41:30
Microsoft and Constellation Energy will reopen Three Mile Island Unit One.
“Microsoft, in conjunction with Constellation Energy, will reopen the now closed unit one of Three Mile Island”
Listen at 41:59
Nuclear power cannot provide hyperscalers electricity quickly.
“nuclear is not going to do any good if you're hoping for electricity anytime soon.”
Listen at 42:34
Cramer predicts nuclear stocks will continue declining after speculative gains.
“these nuclear stocks roared as part of the year of magical investing. And now that we've sobered up, they're going right back down.”
Listen at 42:39
Statements are attributed to the speaker as said on the episode and reflect their view at the time, not PodLume's. They are not advice.
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