Oct 17, 2026 · 1h 1m
Listen from 11:14
Listen at 11:14
Bitcoin tests its edge as AI strains financial markets
Is Bitcoin Ready To Rip While Wall Street Breaks? | Jordi Visser
The conversation connects Bitcoin’s relative strength to a broader reshaping of finance by artificial intelligence, tokenization, and pressure on incumbent institutions.
- 1AI disruption could weaken hedge funds, private credit, and banks by eroding traditional arbitrage and financing advantages.
- 2Bitcoin’s resilience reflects its perceived risk-adjusted strength as equities, bonds, and AI-linked stocks face broader market stress.
- 3Tokenization could unlock illiquid assets while freeing capital, intensifying competition across financial markets and technology companies.
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Visser connects SpaceX’s ambitious scale to tokenizing currently illiquid global assets, arguing that unlocked capital could reshape the economy.
The brief
Jordi Visser frames Bitcoin as a possible hedge against AI-driven disruption, while Anthony Pompliano sets up a debate spanning markets, money, and frontier technology.
The discussion links AI’s pressure on SaaS, hedge funds, and private credit to the leverage lessons of Long-Term Capital Management, where structural arbitrage can fail quickly.
Bitcoin’s relative strength becomes the central market question: Visser sees risk-adjusted performance mattering more than small CPI or interest-rate changes amid concentrated equity leadership.
Pompliano and Visser disagree over frontier AI economics, weighing Anthropic’s growth against falling token prices, model competition, and more specialized business usage.
The closing turn expands the thesis to Elon Musk, SpaceX, and tokenization: unlocking illiquid assets could help finance an AI buildout while reducing concentrated credit stress.
What was said on this episode
67 statements · 50 positive · 14 negative · 3 neutral
Bitcoin is a hedge against disruption from artificial intelligence.
“It's to go buy Bitcoin.”
Listen at 1:02
Agentic-compute investments will perform well over the next three years.
“I have total confidence over the next three years that as a basket.”
Listen at 1:17
Hedge funds are competing against artificial intelligence.
“I have no interest in being in a competition against artificial intelligence, which everyone who's staying in the industry is competing.”
Listen at 3:44
Artificial intelligence and compute will inevitably transform the economy.
“there is no doubt in my mind, with 100% certainty, just like before the dot-com bubble, we knew before the dot-com bubble that the internet would change our lives.”
Listen at 4:03
AI will inevitably change society, though its timing remains uncertain.
“with 100% certainty, just like before the dot-com bubble, we knew before the dot-com bubble that the internet would change our lives.”
Listen at 4:04
AI and its compute demand are inevitable.
“AI and the compute needs for it are an inevitability.”
Listen at 5:32
AI markets will not experience a dot-com-style unwind while compute demand exceeds supply.
“as long as demand is greater than supply, there's no chance in my mind of having an unwind that is very similar to the dot-com bubble”
Listen at 5:45
AI financing will not experience a dot-com-style unwind while demand exceeds supply.
“there's no chance in my mind of having an unwind that is very similar to the dot-com bubble”
Listen at 5:47
Microsoft, Meta, and OpenAI are not defaulting on their obligations.
“Microsoft's not defaulting. Meta's not defaulting. OpenAI's not defaulting.”
Listen at 6:27
Anthropic and OpenAI are unattractive investments.
“I'm bearish anthropic. I'm bearish open AI. I'm bearish this.”
Listen at 7:18
Hedge-fund deleveraging will persist for five years until AI becomes inevitable.
“what is going on and will persist for the entire five years to the inevitable is what I watched with LTCM.”
Listen at 8:31
The hedge-fund industry will eliminate substantial leverage.
“the hedge fund industry, in my opinion, is going through a process which is going to weed out a lot of leverage in the system.”
Listen at 8:51
AI competition erodes private-credit investments in SaaS companies.
“what it did was, if you make investments in these companies, and they're in competition with AI... It just eats at you.”
Listen at 10:54
AI agents can perform all functions of hedge funds.
“an AI agent can do everything that a hedge fund can do. Everything.”
Listen at 11:14
AI agents will reduce demand for office seats.
“AI is going to bring digital agents. What are we going to do with all these seats?”
Listen at 12:40
AI will displace inefficient businesses and leveraged hedge funds.
“AI is crowding out all inefficient businesses, but it's also going to crowd out hedge funds”
Listen at 12:54
Tokenization will enable continuous, year-round hedge-fund risk management.
“Risk managing 24-7, 365, it's an unthinkable process to me, but that's where we're headed to.”
Listen at 13:29
Tokenization will enable continuous hedge-fund risk management.
“that's where we're headed to.”
Listen at 13:36
Bitcoin and Ethereum rose more than 30% over four months.
“Go look at what Bitcoin has done. It's up close to 30%. Go look what Ethereum has done. It's up more than 30%.”
Listen at 14:21
CoreWeave’s financial trouble cannot be determined confidently before 2028–2030.
“We won't know for sure whether they're going to be in trouble, according to Gartner, until 2028, 2029, 2030.”
Listen at 15:00
Tokenization will create prices and liquidity for illiquid assets.
“As tokenization comes, it will free up the ability for there to be a price on things.”
Listen at 16:34
“I'd rather own CoreWeave right now for the next whatever years than this.”
Listen at 16:56
Tokenization will redirect capital into CoreWeave and raise its value.
“So that capital would come in and CoreWeave would go back up.”
Listen at 17:00
Bitcoin currently has an unusually strong recent Sharpe ratio.
“Bitcoin Sharpe ratio right now over the last four months stands out.”
Listen at 19:24
Tokenization is already a reality.
“Tokenization's a reality.”
Listen at 19:53
Crypto adoption and tokenization will materially develop next year.
“I still believe that this is a reality of something for next year.”
Listen at 20:14
Market opportunities will increasingly occur in short windows.
“I think the entire market's gonna be like that.”
Listen at 21:51
Agentic-compute companies will generate earnings over three years.
“over the next three years, with humanoids coming and everything else, that earnings will come to those companies.”
Listen at 22:54
Agentic-compute companies will outperform home builders and automakers.
“they're going to outperform, which means those companies will go up.”
Listen at 23:02
AI is accelerating a deflationary economic environment.
“I believe in a deflationary world accelerating right now.”
Listen at 27:08
Bitcoin is becoming a relatively safe, high-return store of value for risk-averse agents.
“Bitcoin to me is more about where agents make decisions going, hey, I don't want to take risks today. Where do I move my money for a store of value that is creating good returns and it's safe and or safer than everything else type thing.”
Listen at 27:31
Bitcoin’s next rally will coincide with the next AI-trade bounce.
“I do believe that comes to when the AI trade starts to have let's say its next bounce”
Listen at 27:56
The next AI upswing will begin around hyperscaler earnings.
“I would say it usually happens before the event. So this would happen when the hyperscalers report.”
Listen at 28:56
Bitcoin will rise back toward its previous highs.
“For Bitcoin, I expect it to have its next move up to the highs.”
Listen at 30:09
Capital inflows into crypto will benefit Bitcoin.
“if money flows into the space, Bitcoin is going to do well as well.”
Listen at 30:36
Small core-CPI differences will not materially improve investment returns.
“Whether it's 2.6% or 3.2% or 2.2%, it's not gonna help you make money. It doesn't matter.”
Listen at 31:31
A major recession caused by job losses and credit unwinding will not occur.
“The only time in history of markets that something really bad happens is when we lose lots of jobs and the country goes into a recession because credit starts to unwind. That is not going to happen.”
Listen at 32:27
A recession caused by job losses and credit unwinding will not occur.
“That is not going to happen. So I have complete certainty that that will not happen.”
Listen at 32:41
The S&P 500 has delivered double-digit annual total returns across listed historical periods.
“The S&P 500, that is 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, double digits in total return for the entire time period.”
Listen at 33:24
Weekly jobless claims are near their historical low.
“That is the lowest number basically in history.”
Listen at 34:23
Anthropic is the fastest-growing company ever.
“Anthropic is the fastest growing. company in the history of the world.”
Listen at 35:07
Anthropic’s annual recurring revenue will be roughly ten times last year’s by year-end.
“Anthropic has ten times. At the end of this year... They will be around 10 times where they were a year ago in ARR.”
Listen at 40:22
Anthropic’s ARR will be roughly ten times last year’s level by year-end.
“At the end of this year... They will be around 10 times where they were a year ago in ARR.”
Listen at 40:23
Anthropic will approach $100 billion ARR by year-end.
“they will be close to 100 billion of ARR at the end of this year.”
Listen at 40:33
Anthropic’s ARR may grow three to three-and-a-half times next year.
“If you ask me where I think they'll be next year, I don't know, three times, three and a half times.”
Listen at 40:42
Processing tokens on proprietary infrastructure costs 97% less than Anthropic.
“If we process 500 million tokens on Anthropic versus our own hardware and software, we pay 97% less.”
Listen at 42:58
JPMorgan is unlikely to send all internal information to Anthropic.
“I find it very hard to believe that JP Morgan is going to take all of their information and they are going to send it to Anthropic”
Listen at 43:29
AI agents will move deposits from banks into alternative funds.
“AI agents will... Move that money out.”
Listen at 46:09
Organizations relying exclusively on open-source AI will win over ten years.
“the winners of the next 10 years are the people that only use open source.”
Listen at 47:50
Enterprises will pay Anthropic and OpenAI for superior intelligence.
“the enterprises will pay Anthropic and OpenAI because of the advantage, the smarter intelligence”
Listen at 47:55
Anthropic and OpenAI will dominate AI research and science.
“They will be very successful of what they're doing. They have the best models. They have the highest intelligence. They will dominate research and science. No question about it.”
Listen at 48:48
Anthropic and OpenAI will dominate research and science.
“They will dominate research and science. No question about it.”
Listen at 48:52
Anthropic and OpenAI will generate revenue from many sources.
“The revenues will come in. I think they're gonna come in from so many different sources”
Listen at 49:13
Anthropic and OpenAI could jointly reach a $4.5 trillion valuation in five years.
“If we sat here in five years and Anthropic and OpenAI combined were $4.5 trillion”
Listen at 49:24
Most companies will own their full AI stack within fifteen years.
“if I fast forward 15 years from now, most companies, I think, are going to want to own their full stack.”
Listen at 51:22
The intelligence market is large enough for many AI companies to survive.
“the pie of TAM of intelligence is so big that everyone has a chance not to win, but to survive”
Listen at 53:41
Anthropic will not repeat its extraordinary recent returns over three years.
“to bet that you're gonna get the same kind of return on it over the course of the next three years is silly.”
Listen at 54:54
Tokenization could unlock roughly $900 trillion of currently illiquid assets.
“Could I come to the terms of what my vision is of the future and how Elon could be right? Here's the way it could be right. There are $900 trillion on the asset.”
Listen at 55:39
Bitcoin could reach a $50 trillion valuation.
“Bitcoin to me, same argument, like, could it be 50 trillion? Of course it could.”
Listen at 56:14
Bitcoin could reach a $50 trillion valuation.
“could it be 50 trillion? Of course it could.”
Listen at 56:17
SpaceX will likely acquire Tesla at a premium.
“it is likely that SpaceX would acquire Tesla and would have to do it at a premium to the current Tesla valuation.”
Listen at 57:33
SpaceX may acquire Tesla at a premium to its current valuation.
“SpaceX would acquire Tesla and would have to do it at a premium to the current Tesla valuation.”
Listen at 57:35
Tesla stock will rise as merger speculation increases.
“my guess is that we are going to see Tesla stock start to kind of grind up here.”
Listen at 57:47
Tesla stock could rise by year-end amid merger speculation.
“Tesla stock could run here into the end of the year.”
Listen at 58:11
The AI trade requires enormous amounts of public-market capital.
“the amount of capital needed for the AI trade from the public markets is enormous.”
Listen at 58:31
AI companies entering public markets will require capital absorption over the next year.
“the capital needs to basically be digested. And open AI is coming to the market. Anthropics coming to the market.”
Listen at 59:42
AI-related capital needs will not cause a market-wide decline.
“It won't take the market down because the economics behind it are supported”
Listen at 1:00:44
Statements are attributed to the speaker as said on the episode and reflect their view at the time, not PodLume's. They are not advice.
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