Sep 1, 2026 · 1h 30m
Listen from 54:15
Listen at 54:15
Can political normalcy survive the collapse of trust
The Hacks Present: Stay Tuned with Preet
Sam Harris and Preet Bharara examine how tribalism, institutional failures, and partisan double standards have weakened democratic accountability and prosecutorial independence.
- 1Social media, information silos, and COVID-era institutional mistakes helped turn political disagreement into entrenched distrust.
- 2Harris and Bharara debate whether Trump’s success reflects his unique shamelessness, opposition failures, or a broader collapse of political standards.
- 3They argue that restoring normal politics requires process, accountability, credible apologies, and renewed independence for the Justice Department.
Don't miss
Preet Bharara analyzes Attorney General Todd Blanche’s refusal to promise that the Justice Department would resist an unethical or illegal presidential request.
The brief
Sam Harris and Preet Bharara begin with the erosion of good-faith debate, tracing polarization to social media, information silos, tribalism, and declining trust after COVID-19.
Their sharpest disagreement concerns political double standards: Harris emphasizes left-wing miscalculations, while Bharara warns that this can obscure the more extreme conduct tolerated on the right.
Trump’s resilience becomes a case study in institutional erosion, as sheer volume, shamelessness, and supporters’ tolerance for misconduct overwhelm traditional norms and accountability.
The conversation turns toward repair: constitutional process, reason-giving, forgiveness, and consequences, alongside uncertainty over whether Trumpism can survive without Trump.
In the closing discussion, Bharara examines Todd Blanche’s refusal to promise Justice Department independence and the broader implications for January 6 prosecutions.
What was said on this episode
52 statements · 10 positive · 37 negative · 1 mixed · 4 neutral
Social media has fragmented culture and created information silos.
“I think the information siloing of born of social media has... You just said that in the fragmentation of culture as a result of that, that has preceded a pace for the last 20 some odd years.”
Listen at 3:43
People read less, shorter, and less carefully argued material.
“I think people are reading less and what they read is shorter and less carefully argued.”
Listen at 3:57
COVID and its aftermath intensified contrarianism and conspiracy thinking.
“the appetite for contrarianism and conspiracy thinking has been supercharged, you know, during COVID and beyond.”
Listen at 5:01
Joe Rogan’s podcast has had a politically harmful influence on independent broadcasters.
“The effect that Joe Rogan's podcast has had has been, I mean, it's been many things, but it has been politically. I think it's not just what's happened on his podcast, but the instruction that every other independent broadcaster on earth has taken from his example. I think it's been terrible.”
Listen at 5:27
Branding COVID lab-leak speculation as racist was counterproductive.
“the immediate branding of any speculation about the origins of this virus being not a wet market but a lab leak as racist, right? That kind of vilification of people who were just following some obvious chains of thought at the time. That was terrible and terribly counterproductive, right?”
Listen at 9:08
The racism charge against COVID lab-leak speculation was unjustified.
“I mean, the racism charge was always idiotic.”
Listen at 10:14
Calling lab-leak speculation racist was an idiotic charge.
“the racism charge was always idiotic.”
Listen at 10:14
Anthony Fauci is the target of a moral-panic witch hunt.
“But I do think he's also... the focus of a witch hunt and the attacks on him and the glee with which many people are expecting an 85-year-old man to spend the rest of his days in prison. I mean, like, all of this is just a kind of moral panic and a burning of a witch”
Listen at 11:24
Anthony Fauci has become the focus of a politically driven witch hunt.
“I do think he's also... the focus of a witch hunt”
Listen at 11:24
Trump and his associates’ conduct is far worse than Nancy Pelosi’s stock trades.
“What Trump and company are doing now is orders of magnitude worse”
Listen at 13:54
The Democratic Party will control the House of Representatives.
“I think the House will be in the hands of the Democrats.”
Listen at 15:29
Alleged Trump-related financial conduct will eventually be investigated.
“I think the things that you're talking about are ripe for investigation and will be investigated. Not by the Justice Department over the next two and a half years, but at some point they will.”
Listen at 16:30
Donald Trump’s political prospects were extremely poor after the 2020 election.
“Donald Trump was deader than dead as a political prospect. after he lost the election in 2020.”
Listen at 17:32
Donald Trump’s popularity rose after indictment by the Manhattan district attorney.
“his popularity began to rise again when he was indicted by the Manhattan DA.”
Listen at 17:43
Trump’s success and scandal resistance stem more from circumstances than genius.
“I think a lot of his success and, you know, his ascendancy and his invulnerability to scandal has less to do with him being some kind of political genius and more to do with the situation in which he has found himself”
Listen at 20:06
Trump’s success reflects his political environment more than political genius.
“a lot of his success and, you know, his ascendancy and his invulnerability to scandal has less to do with him being some kind of political genius and more to do with the situation in which he has found himself”
Listen at 20:07
Trump benefits from tens of millions of voters indifferent to truth.
“he has found himself in the presence of a, of an electorate where tens of millions of people simply do not care about what is real”
Listen at 21:57
Thirty to forty percent of Americans disregard whether Trump’s claims are coherent or true.
“he's got enough people, something like 30% of Americans, maybe 40% of Americans, who simply don't care if the... puzzle piece fits”
Listen at 22:38
Trump can win without majority support by mobilizing a smaller anti-democratic bloc.
“And Donald Trump seems to have figured out, again, instinctively, because I don't think he gives deep thought to anything. He doesn't have a manifesto at home. He has instinct in his head that... You don't need to have 51% of the people. You don't need to have 60% of the people.”
Listen at 24:01
Left-wing confusion substantially contributed to Trump becoming president.
“I blame the left in large measure for the fact that there's a President Trump in the first place.”
Listen at 26:00
Political standards treated Al Franken and Roy Moore’s misconduct very differently.
“Al Franken got defenestrated for that arguably tasteless photo that he took. But at the same moment, you know, we had Judge Roy Moore. getting the Republican wagon circled around him for having, you know, groomed, what, a 15-year-old or something as a 30-year-old man. I mean, there's just no, there's no comparison.”
Listen at 27:21
The DSA and associated communist organization advocate abolishing major institutions and private property.
“They're for the abolition of everything, the presidency, the Senate, capitalism, even private property, right? I mean, this is their platform.”
Listen at 28:26
If forced between fascism and communism, people will choose fascism.
“fascism on the one hand, and I think Anne Applebaum's point here is instructive, and communism, or I can't figure out how to disavow communism on the other hand, will choose fascism.”
Listen at 30:51
Zoran Mamdani is politically disastrous.
“So Zoran Mamdani is a disaster.”
Listen at 31:09
Democratic confusion could produce a more extreme right-wing successor in 2028.
“I think that is, I think we get J.D. Vance, we get Donald Trump Jr., we get some weird, we'll get the MyPillow guy over that.”
Listen at 31:29
Tribalism and dogmatism are major causes of collective social problems.
“at the group level, I would say it's—I mean, there are really two wings to this awful bird. I would say it's tribalism and dogmatism.”
Listen at 32:30
Lying is reliably corrupting and socially destructive.
“it is just the most reliably corrupting and deranging thing we do”
Listen at 34:17
The process behind changing views matters more than the resulting position.
“I think what's crucial is not where you arrive, but the process that got you there.”
Listen at 38:00
Credible apologies or changed views require explaining the path to the new position.
“what they require is some account of how I have moved through thought space so as to be standing on the wrong spot at one point and now standing on the right one now”
Listen at 39:05
Accepting conduct from one’s side but not the other should trigger moral concern.
“if the thing you're accepting when your side does it would be totally unacceptable to you if the other side did it, that should alarm you. morally and politically”
Listen at 44:17
Voters should oppose their side destroying democratic norms because opponents may later exploit them.
“So you shouldn't be happy to see your guy in charge destroying every norm in sight because you should anticipate that a person you don't like will behave in precisely that way next time.”
Listen at 44:55
Political norms need legal backing to prevent democratic abuses.
“we had norms where laws were supposed to be, right? Or we thought norms were going to be strong enough, or we just assumed that unconsciously, but discovered that they really have to be backed up by laws”
Listen at 45:55
The United States codified the presidential two-term norm.
“We did. We codified the norm of two terms.”
Listen at 49:01
Trump’s volume of scandals prevents individual scandals remaining newsworthy.
“the amount of it is so overwhelming that you can't keep any scandal in view for even a full news cycle because the next scandal just pushed it out of your mind”
Listen at 51:15
A substantial Trump-supporting base accepts and celebrates nearly any indiscretion.
“the floor is something like that who will accept anything, who will rally to anything, who will celebrate any indiscretion”
Listen at 53:35
Trumpism is showing signs of political unraveling.
“Yeah, I would say there are signs of it unraveling.”
Listen at 54:15
Trumpism shows signs of unraveling because Trump cannot run again.
“Yeah, I would say there are signs of it unraveling. One, he can't run again.”
Listen at 54:15
J.D. Vance is unlikely to match Trump’s effectiveness as a demagogue.
“I just don't think he's going to be a good demagogue in the same way”
Listen at 54:56
Fragmentation among Trump’s allies signals political erosion.
“That is a sign of some kind of political erosion.”
Listen at 55:50
Trump’s political success operates through celebrity dynamics rather than ordinary politics.
“Trump functions by the physics of celebrity, right? Not ordinary politics.”
Listen at 57:16
Society should seek consequences for much of the Trump-era conduct.
“But I think consequences for much of what has happened is something we should seek.”
Listen at 1:01:14
Society should pursue consequences for much of the Trump-era conduct.
“Consequences for much of what has happened is something we should seek.”
Listen at 1:01:14
The current president is trading American policy and power for personal self-interest.
“you cannot have a president who trades away American policy and power purely out of self-interest. And that's what we have.”
Listen at 1:02:32
Trump has weakened public support for prosecutorial independence from presidential direction.
“He has undermined, I mean, the number of people now who have given a thought to why it is important and why it is good for their liberty and for their equal protection that a president have no business in directing the prosecutions of particular humans”
Listen at 1:03:01
The political system needs responsible leaders and stronger anti-corruption safeguards.
“We need grownups, obvious grownups in the room, right? And then we need to figure out how to create a system that is impervious to this level of corruption”
Listen at 1:04:41
American political institutions require strengthening against corruption.
“our system needs shoring up somehow. Our institutions need shoring up.”
Listen at 1:04:59
Personnel choices, rather than constitutional changes, drove differences between administrations.
“It was the personnel. It was the people.”
Listen at 1:06:14
No obvious Democratic candidate has rejected activist excesses.
“there's no one now who is obviously going to disavow the activist craziness that so many Democrats still can't figure out how to disentangle from”
Listen at 1:07:04
Gavin Newsom is a plausible candidate who is telegenic, combative, and not woke.
“Gavin Newsom is in some ways plausible, right? He's telegenic. He's willing to fight. He's not woke”
Listen at 1:07:36
Some potential presidential candidates have morally sound, non-disastrous personal lives.
“There are good people out there whose lives are not disaster zones.”
Listen at 1:09:21
Many Americans strongly dislike sanctimony.
“many, many Americans are allergic to sanctimony”
Listen at 1:10:45
Bullshit is more damaging to truth than lying.
“The bullshitter is an even greater enemy of the truth than the liar is”
Listen at 1:13:18
Statements are attributed to the speaker as said on the episode and reflect their view at the time, not PodLume's. They are not advice.
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