May 27, 2026 · 2h 49m
MMA veterans warn judging and officiating are failing to match fighter evolution
JRE MMA Show #179 with Josh Thompson & "Big" John McCarthy
As mixed martial arts grows globally, the integrity of the sport hinges on reforming officiating and adapting to a new generation of international talent.
- 1Judging criteria and refereeing standards must undergo a major overhaul to keep pace with the rapid technical evolution of modern fighters.
- 2International training camps, particularly those linked to Fedor Emelianenko, are producing a dominant new wave of heavyweight prospects.
- 3Hosting championship fights in outdoor venues introduces severe environmental risks that compromise athlete safety and performance.
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John McCarthy breaks down the structural flaws in current MMA judging and why officials struggle to accurately score complex grappling exchanges.
The brief
MMA veterans John McCarthy and Josh Thompson join Joe Rogan to dissect the rapid technical evolution of mixed martial arts and the systemic challenges facing modern officiating.
The trio argues that while fighter skillsets have reached unprecedented heights, the sport's judging criteria and refereeing standards have struggled to keep pace with the action.
They explore how international training camps, particularly those associated with heavyweight legend Fedor Emelianenko, are reshaping the global talent pool with highly disciplined prospects.
The discussion turns to the logistical and environmental hurdles of hosting outdoor championship fights, highlighting how extreme elements can compromise athlete safety and performance.
What was said on this episode
118 statements · 68 positive · 40 negative · 3 mixed · 7 neutral
Referees can officiate effectively while objectively commenting on promotions.
“it's not like you're not going to be a great referee while also still being able to comment objectively about promotions”
Listen at 1:14
Head kicks and knees to the head should be banned if MMA bans techniques.
“we should absolutely ban kicks to the head and knees to the head”
Listen at 3:54
Grounded knees will never be legalized in MMA.
“I've advocated for knees on the ground for a long time. It's never going to happen.”
Listen at 5:20
MMA stomps are ineffective against fighters who are not already seriously hurt.
“Name me. The fight that you saw that a stomp was an effective technique when the fighter was not already seriously hurt. Doesn't happen.”
Listen at 5:42
Fedor’s speed and explosiveness make his punches difficult to see and defend.
“he's fast and I mean, super fat. When he explodes and his hands are down kind of, so it's hard to see when the shots are coming”
Listen at 11:40
Fedor established the effective blueprint for defeating Mirko Cro Cop.
“He wrote the blueprint on how to beat CRO Cop.”
Listen at 13:55
Mirko Cro Cop was an early successful kickboxing-to-MMA transition through explosiveness.
“he was like the first guy to figure out how to transition from kickboxing to mma, because he did it with explosiveness”
Listen at 15:34
Mirko Cro Cop had the best left kick in MMA history.
“his left kick has to be the best left kick there's ever been ever in the sport of mma”
Listen at 16:34
José Aldo probably had the best takedown defense in MMA.
“Probably the best, I think, probably the best in the sport that we've seen.”
Listen at 18:00
Professional soccer athleticism translates well to MMA kicking, movement, and footwork.
“that would translate perfectly to mma for kick, for moving, for footwork”
Listen at 19:26
MMA organizers should find a way to stop weight cutting.
“They should figure out a way to stop it.”
Listen at 22:02
Weight limits based on five-pound rehydration margins could encourage dangerous dehydration.
“the fighter themselves is not keeping themselves dehydrated to make that five pound, and now they're going in even more dehydrated into the fight, which could cause them more problems”
Listen at 24:30
Random weight checks could work if implemented by MMA promotions.
“That's why your randoms would work if. If the promotion was doing it.”
Listen at 24:43
Excessive weight cutting can damage an MMA fighter’s career.
“you have to realize you're cutting too much weight and it's actually ruining your career”
Listen at 28:26
Properly adding weight significantly improved Max Holloway’s power, mobility, and movement.
“significant difference in power, mobility, movement”
Listen at 28:49
Max Holloway should not have returned to featherweight against Ilia Topuria.
“That guy should have never went down to 45 again to fight Topuria. It's too much loss.”
Listen at 28:55
Extreme MMA weight cutting harms the kidneys each time it occurs.
“you're basically killing your kidneys every time you do it”
Listen at 32:56
Andrei Arlovski reduced damage by shifting from power punching to volume fighting.
“he changed his style. You know, Arlovsky was a big power puncher for a long time and then was getting hit with big shots and said, you know what, I'm going to be a volume guy. And he was successful with it and didn't take near as much damage.”
Listen at 34:15
Rico Verhoeven’s close-range fighting created significant problems for Oleksandr Usyk.
“He actually created the problems of closing that distance every time. Look how close he get. He kept on getting into the phone and he would do work, and it was causing Usyk nothing but problems.”
Listen at 38:00
Rico Verhoeven consistently has excellent conditioning.
“he's a guy who always has tremendous conditioning”
Listen at 38:15
The Rico Verhoeven–Oleksandr Usyk fight was stopped improperly.
“That's a bad stoppage.”
Listen at 39:47
Rinsing a dropped boxing mouthpiece does not provide a meaningful benefit.
“Which does what for it?”
Listen at 42:34
Steel cups should be prohibited in MMA because they place metal over the groin.
“However, it should be illegal. It's crazy. You have a piece of metal, your dick.”
Listen at 43:51
Joe Rogan says steel cups should be illegal in MMA.
“it should be illegal”
Listen at 43:51
Fighting with a broken arm could result in amputation.
“you might have to get it amputated if you did that”
Listen at 47:32
Officials should protect fighters from their own decisions.
“You got to protect the fighter from themselves.”
Listen at 47:51
Joe Rogan says the UFC has a serious judging and betting problem.
“The UFC has a real Problem”
Listen at 50:53
John McCarthy says split decisions are not inherently bad.
“split decision is not always bad”
Listen at 52:58
Using five judges instead of three does not improve fight judging.
“No. No, I've worked with it. I've done it too many times. It doesn't change anything.”
Listen at 53:02
Joe Rogan considers Verdict MMA accurate about 99 percent of the time.
“I think they're accurate. Like 99 of the time”
Listen at 53:56
UFC fighters should receive guaranteed competition pay.
“You should get paid to compete.”
Listen at 55:11
Joe Rogan opposes win bonuses for UFC fighters.
“I just don't like win bonuses.”
Listen at 56:37
Athletes should learn frugality to manage their finances.
“Learning how smart, smart, learning how to be frugal is very important, especially if you're an athlete”
Listen at 58:05
Joe Rogan says muscle cars retain monetary value.
“Muscle cars like that, they're always worth money.”
Listen at 59:52
Professional fighters should live frugally, especially early in their careers.
“that's how you have to live if you're going to be a professional athlete, a professional fighter”
Listen at 1:00:09
Justin Gaethje will be highly focused for his next fight.
“this is the last dance. Right. So you know that he's going to be hyper focused for this fight.”
Listen at 1:02:35
Alexander Volkanovski should not have been allowed to fight soon after his knockout.
“no one should have let Volkanowski take that fight”
Listen at 1:03:29
A fighter should not return this quickly after a knockout.
“you can't do this this fast”
Listen at 1:03:59
Joe Rogan would not advise fighting Islam Makhachev on eleven days’ notice.
“I would have never advised him to take that fight with Islam on 11 days notice.”
Listen at 1:05:11
Brain recovery after fighting may require 45 days to six months and dietary support.
“45 days, up to up to six months. Eating more fats, more avocados, things like that to help your brain recover.”
Listen at 1:07:36
Repeated brain trauma without rest can end a fighter’s career.
“head shots and trauma to the brain, especially when you don't give it the opportunity to rest and heal it, will absolutely take and burn your career.”
Listen at 1:09:04
John McCarthy regards Jon Jones as the greatest championship fighter.
“Jon Jones is the guy”
Listen at 1:13:20
John McCarthy considers Khabib Nurmagomedov the most dominant fighter he encountered.
“The most dominant fighter I ever stepped into that cage with was Habib.”
Listen at 1:13:22
Khabib’s consistent training lifestyle caused his success.
“He never missed training. He never changed his lifestyle. He did everything the same. Yeah. And that's why he had the results.”
Listen at 1:15:55
Drinking can impair fighters for several days before returning to baseline.
“If you're getting drunk on Saturday night, that's days before you're back to baseline”
Listen at 1:18:58
A takedown threat reduces a fighter’s comfort and ability to find flow.
“that threat of the takedown is this factor that keeps you from being comfortable. It keeps you from finding your flow state.”
Listen at 1:20:29
Gable Steveson could fight for a UFC heavyweight title within two years.
“you could see Gable fighting for a title within a year or two.”
Listen at 1:23:39
Joe Rogan considers Francis Ngannou the world’s best heavyweight.
“you have the best heavyweight in the world”
Listen at 1:25:22
Joe Rogan considers Francis Ngannou the most frightening heavyweight.
“He's the scariest heavyweight on planet Earth.”
Listen at 1:26:04
Joe Rogan recommends merging heavyweight and super-heavyweight divisions.
“merge it”
Listen at 1:27:17
John McCarthy says Yoel Romero is physically unlike every other human.
“He is built differently than every other human being.”
Listen at 1:28:49
John McCarthy says Andre Smaiev takes 1,000 growth-hormone units daily.
“a thousand units of growth hormone a day”
Listen at 1:30:43
A 350-pound athlete can perform one-arm pull-ups.
“That dude does one arm pull ups at £350.”
Listen at 1:30:59
MMA should have a 225-pound division followed by an unrestricted class.
“I think this should be a 225 and then should be chaos.”
Listen at 1:33:14
Enhancement in fighting creates additional damage because opponents strike one another.
“It's just there's a difference. You're creating damage in the Sport of fighting 100.”
Listen at 1:35:58
Performance enhancement increases a fighter’s ability to absorb damage.
“You're also enhancing your ability to take damage.”
Listen at 1:36:07
EPO may increase endurance and reduce the number of strikes a fighter receives.
“You're going to get hit with less shots because you're going to have more endurance because you're going to be on epo.”
Listen at 1:36:12
Prime Cain Velasquez versus prime Fedor was the greatest missed MMA matchup.
“We missed out on the greatest matchup of all time between Prime Kane and Prime Fedor.”
Listen at 1:38:13
Alistair Overeem appears unaffected in speech despite many knockouts.
“That guy's been KO'd a ton of times. Seems fine.”
Listen at 1:39:57
APOE4 has no apparent effect without repeated head impacts.
“and you're not taking headshots, you're okay. It doesn't do anything.”
Listen at 1:41:12
A cited study found CTE in roughly nine of ten people across several youth groups.
“they found that everyone, it was like 9 out of 10 had it in every group.”
Listen at 1:41:59
MMA removes the decision time available in boxing after a fighter is knocked down.
“MMA takes that time to away because I have a fighter that is now instead of walking towards or you know, trotting towards a neutral corner or something like that, they're trotting towards that person to do more damage to him.”
Listen at 1:43:30
Trauma can disrupt and restore neural connections in comparable ways.
“There is no difference in being able to hit them and putting them back.”
Listen at 1:44:37
Rico Verhoeven won most rounds of his fight against Oleksandr Usyk, according to many observers.
“in most people's eyes, he won most of the rounds of that fight.”
Listen at 1:46:30
Conor McGregor won the opening rounds against Floyd Mayweather because Mayweather did not punch.
“Conor won the first couple rounds because Mayweather didn't throw any punches.”
Listen at 1:46:48
Terence Crawford could compete in MMA because he can wrestle.
“Bud Crawford could go to mma. That dude can wrestle”
Listen at 1:47:41
Jack Della Maddalena is among MMA’s most intimidating strikers.
“Jack Della Madeleine is one of the scariest strikers in the sport.”
Listen at 1:50:18
Opponents are unlikely to surpass Pereira in Muay Thai.
“You're not going to catch Prate when it comes to Muay Thai.”
Listen at 1:51:04
Sean Brady would pose Islam Makhachev a more difficult matchup than some alternatives.
“you put someone like a Sean Brady against Islam and that becomes a little more difficult problem.”
Listen at 1:54:57
Michael Morales could pose a major striking threat.
“I think Michael Morales could be a big threat on the feet.”
Listen at 1:55:24
Michael Morales’s size could create difficulties for Islam Makhachev.
“the size, I think of Michael Morales will give Islam some problems as well.”
Listen at 1:55:31
Jason Jackson versus Alex Pereira or Ian Garry would be an excellent fight.
“I think him. You add him against a practice or against an Ian Garrett, be great. These guys would duke it out. It would be a great, great fight.”
Listen at 1:57:14
Jason Jackson should be brought into the UFC’s welterweight mix.
“I'd love to see Jason Jackson in there mixing it up with those guys”
Listen at 1:59:08
Adding prominent fighters from other promotions energizes a weight class and its competitors.
“It kind of puts a little shot in the arm, into the weight class and gets everyone amped up.”
Listen at 2:01:46
Aaron Pico could become exceptionally good if he relaxes during fights.
“And Pico. Pico could be so good. He just has to relax.”
Listen at 2:03:03
Aaron Pico has the best body left hook since Paul Daley.
“he's got the best left hook to the body since Paul Daly.”
Listen at 2:03:35
Using the head as a striking instrument is a foul under MMA rules.
“It hit him in the jaw. Okay. It didn't hit him head to head. And you're not allowed to use your head as a striking instrument. It's a foul.”
Listen at 2:08:51
MMA permits using the head for control but prohibits lifting it to strike.
“We say you can use your head as a steering instrument, as a third arm. You can press with it. You can do a lot of uncomfortable things with it. You cannot pick it up and bring it back to strike.”
Listen at 2:09:02
Mike Perry can support his family and become a star through bare-knuckle fighting.
“this is a guy who can make a living fighting for bare knuckle. He can pay his bills, he can support his family fighting bare knuckle and become a star.”
Listen at 2:13:52
Assembly Bill 2130 proposed allocating sponsorship revenue between retired fighters and officials’ training.
“75% of it went to retired fighters, 25% of it went to training for upcoming and in service officials”
Listen at 2:16:10
More MMA promotion competition benefits everyone.
“I think it's great for everybody if there's more competition.”
Listen at 2:18:32
High-level international competition gives fighters more experience.
“The fighters get more experience on a high level competition.”
Listen at 2:18:58
MMA fighters should receive more compensation.
“The fighters need to get more money.”
Listen at 2:19:09
The UFC will remain the dominant MMA promotion.
“It's always going to be the UFC here”
Listen at 2:19:12
The UFC brand makes viewers watch unfamiliar fighters.
“they'll turn it on when it says ufc because they believe in the product.”
Listen at 2:19:39
The UFC currently cannot market fighters as effectively as it did previously.
“the one problem I do think that they have right now is they're unable to market people like they did”
Listen at 2:19:48
The UFC’s weekly schedule makes individual fighters harder to market.
“they now are in a position every week, and so it's tough to market.”
Listen at 2:19:56
Some MMA cards appear mediocre on paper but excellent when watched.
“the card itself rates, if you're looking at it honestly, it rates a 5.5 on paper, and then you'll watch it and it's a 9.5.”
Listen at 2:20:14
Casual fans are crucial to the UFC’s broader success.
“the casual one's, the one that puts it over.”
Listen at 2:20:41
Ronda Rousey’s promotion effectively attracted public attention.
“I'll give Ronda Rousey, man, I thought she did an amazing job of talking 100% and putting, you know, things out there the way she did. She made. She got people's attention. She did what was her job.”
Listen at 2:20:49
Conor McGregor’s return will generate substantial public excitement.
“people are going to go crazy for the return of Conor McGregor because he's a giant personality.”
Listen at 2:21:24
Max Holloway competing at 155 pounds is best for him.
“I honestly believe him at 155 is the best thing for him”
Listen at 2:22:38
Max Holloway will be in exceptional shape for this fight.
“in this fight, he's going to be in insane shape.”
Listen at 2:22:54
A.J. McKee’s body length enables him to reach opponents.
“He's so long, he's able to reach him.”
Listen at 2:24:30
A.J. McKee is unusually large for the 145-pound division.
“He's huge for 145. Yeah, he's a big, big boy.”
Listen at 2:24:33
Front kicks to the face succeed partly because they are unexpected.
“Now you see a lot of front kicks to the face because it's such an unexpected thing.”
Listen at 2:25:25
Benson Henderson used calf kicks in Strikeforce around 2007–2008.
“he was doing it in strike force in 2007. 2008.”
Listen at 2:26:31
American Top Team frequently uses calf kicks as a major weapon.
“they do calf kicks all the time. That is a huge weapon that they use.”
Listen at 2:26:40
Jorge Masvidal was underappreciated until surprising accomplishments increased recognition.
“he never got credit until he started doing things, things that people didn't think he could do.”
Listen at 2:27:25
Paddy Pimblett is inferior to Justin Gaethje in stand-up fighting.
“Patty was not at Justin's level with stand up.”
Listen at 2:28:08
Justin Gaethje is an elite grappler.
“First of all, Justin is an elite grappler.”
Listen at 2:28:15
Justin Gaethje has not declined competitively.
“Justin hasn't faded.”
Listen at 2:28:52
The Max Holloway fight made Justin Gaethje consider retirement.
“I think the fight with Max Holloway made him kind of think about.”
Listen at 2:29:24
A strong performance against Ilia Topuria may keep Justin Gaethje fighting.
“if he has a great performance against Ilya, I think he'll stick around.”
Listen at 2:30:44
Fans alone will not adequately control insects at the White House event.
“No, it's not enough.”
Listen at 2:31:42
World championship fights should occur indoors in controlled conditions.
“I just don't think that you should compare compete in a world championship fight in a non controlled environment. I think it should be inside an air conditioned arena. It should be a controlled environment”
Listen at 2:31:56
Ibogaine can help veterans with PTSD and traumatic brain injuries.
“I tell him how effective it is at helping all these veterans with ptsd, people with traumatic brain injuries, all these different things.”
Listen at 2:36:06
Ibogaine is among the strongest demonstrated interventions for fentanyl problems.
“This is one of the best things that we've ever demonstrated.”
Listen at 2:36:15
Ibogaine has bipartisan support and 85% national public support.
“it's bipartisan, supported, like, Democrats support it, Republicans support it. 85% of the country supports it.”
Listen at 2:37:36
Dan Patrick approved $100 million for a Texas ibogaine initiative.
“Dan Patrick, who approved this $100 million for this ibogaine initiative”
Listen at 2:38:30
Institutional treatment can benefit severely ill homeless people and the public.
“it's better for them, and it's better for the people that are out on the street just trying to live their lives, to have that person be put into a place where they can receive some medication, receive some help”
Listen at 2:40:30
San Jose and San Francisco provide homeless people with needles and drugs.
“in San Jose or San Francisco, they're giving them needles, they're giving them drugs, they're giving them.”
Listen at 2:41:41
California’s $24 billion homelessness spending has produced no results.
“When you find out that California spent 24 billion in homelessness, what have they done? Nothing.”
Listen at 2:41:52
Taxing wealthy people is not the solution to government problems.
“taxing the rich is the solution.”
Listen at 2:44:22
The United States has billions of dollars in fraud.
“Billions. Billions and billions.”
Listen at 2:44:52
California has discovered at least roughly $200 billion in fraud.
“in California they've discovered. Let's just say what, 200 billion at least. You know, somewhere around there. That's on the low end.”
Listen at 2:45:18
Some people profited from fraud and funneled proceeds back into political parties.
“These people were profiting off of the fraud. They were funneling it right back into the parties”
Listen at 2:45:37
School budgets can be reduced when teachers fail to spend allocated money.
“the schools operate the same same way. If the teachers don't spend a certain amount of money on these things and they don't get the same budget for next year.”
Listen at 2:45:58
Statements are attributed to the speaker as said on the episode and reflect their view at the time, not PodLume's. They are not advice.