Oct 26, 2026 · 31 min

Retirement products turn savings into spendable income

Talk Your Book: Beyond Bonds in Retirement

As longer lifespans make decumulation harder, retirees and advisors must weigh lifetime guarantees against liquidity, fees, and capped market upside.

3 key takeaways

1Annuities and structured ETFs aim to convert accumulated wealth into more predictable retirement income.
2Principal protection can reduce retirement anxiety, but it comes with fees, capped gains, and possible periods without income.
3Higher interest rates can improve structured strategies’ economics while exposing the limits of traditional stock-and-bond assumptions.

Don't miss

Matt Kaufman explains how an ETF can combine risk-free assets and flex options to protect principal while capping equity upside.

The brief

Michael Batnick and Ben Carlson speak with Matt Kaufman of Calamos about a central retirement problem: turning accumulated wealth into sustainable spending without exhausting savings.

Annuities offer lifetime income, but their complexity and limited liquidity have encouraged efforts to recreate some benefits inside more flexible, semi-liquid ETF structures.

The conversation’s key behavioral insight is that guaranteed or semi-guaranteed income can give retirees a license to spend rather than treating every withdrawal as a threat to solvency.

Kaufman explains how zero-coupon bonds, options, and higher interest rates shape structured strategies, including ETFs that protect principal while capping equity upside.

The trade-off is explicit: protection and income confidence can mean fees, constrained gains, capacity limits, and no income in a down market.

What was said on this episode

15 statements · 8 positive · 2 negative · 5 neutral

Matt Kaufmanon U.S. retirement-age populationNeutral5:06
One in five Americans will be retirement age by 2030.
“About one in five people in the United States are going to be of retirement age by 2030.”
Listen at 5:06
Matt Kaufmanon Retirement savings longevityNeutral6:43
Retirement savings now need to last at least 20 years.
“Fast forward to today, and now your money has to live 20 years or longer.”
Listen at 6:43
Matt Kaufmanon ETF retirement-income strategiesPositive8:23
ETFs can now deliver many strategies formerly available through insurers.
“What we are seeing in the ETF world, is a lot of those same strategies that you could have gotten through an insurance balance sheet can now be delivered in the ETF.”
Listen at 8:23
Matt Kaufmanon Calamos principal-protected ETFsPositive11:04
Principal-protected ETFs can offer retirees 8–9% upside without downside risk.
“So if you're a retiree, being able to get 8% to 9% upside with no downside risk, that can be a good trade.”
Listen at 11:04
Matt Kaufmanon New financial productsNeutral12:54
New financial products typically need about 1,000 days for market adoption.
“whenever we launch something new, we tend to give it about a thousand days for the market to adopt it.”
Listen at 12:54
Matt Kaufmanon AnnuitiesPositive15:48
Annuities can make retirees more willing to spend.
“What annuities can give you is a license to spend.”
Listen at 15:48
Matt Kaufmanon Deferred income annuitiesPositive16:41
Deferred income annuities can eliminate longevity risk for an initial 15–20 years.
“if you can eliminate that longevity risk, I can live off the portfolio for 15, 20 years.”
Listen at 16:41
Matt Kaufmanon Options-based retirement strategiesPositive19:48
Higher interest rates can increase upside or income from options-based strategies.
“if interest rates are going higher you are positively tied to that rising interest rate”
Listen at 19:48
Matt Kaufmanon Options-based income productsNeutral21:58
Options-based income products carry risks distinct from bonds.
“the biggest difference here is understanding how much risk you're taking on.”
Listen at 21:58
Matt Kaufmanon Options-based structured productsNegative22:12
Higher cap rates generally correspond to lower downside protection.
“if you see a product that has a really high cap rate. the odds are your buffer, your protection level is probably low.”
Listen at 22:12
Matt Kaufmanon Daily or weekly income productsNegative23:07
Annualized yields based on daily or weekly income may be unlikely to materialize.
“The odds of you actually achieving that are probably low.”
Listen at 23:07
Matt Kaufmanon S&P 500 principal-protected ETFPositive24:36
The S&P 500 principal-protected ETF currently offers 8.7% upside.
“Right now, 8.7% upside on the S&P 500.”
Listen at 24:36
Matt Kaufmanon S&P 500 principal-protected ETFPositive24:43
The S&P 500 ETF provides 100% principal protection.
“And then 100% protection.”
Listen at 24:43
Matt Kaufmanon Russell 2000 principal-protected ETFPositive25:42
The Russell 2000 product offered about 10% upside over a one-year period.
“The Russell 2000, we just struck that cap rate, was about 10% upside tied to the Russell 2000 over the next one-year outcome period.”
Listen at 25:42
Matt Kaufmanon S&P 500Neutral29:22
The S&P 500 has approximately $15 trillion in liquidity.
“I think the S&P is around a $15 trillion liquidity pool.”
Listen at 29:22

Statements are attributed to the speaker as said on the episode and reflect their view at the time, not PodLume's. They are not advice.

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