Jun 30, 2026 · 3h 59m
Historian Anthony Kaldellis challenges traditional narratives on the fall of Rome
#498 – Anthony Kaldellis: Roman Empire, Byzantine Empire, Rise & Fall of Empires
Understanding the true mechanics of Roman survival and decline reframes how we view the stability and potential vulnerabilities of modern global superpowers.
- 1The Byzantine Empire was the direct continuation of Rome, operating as a monarchic republic where public opinion held emperors accountable.
- 2The Western Roman Empire collapsed due to barbarian invasions and a shrinking tax base, while the East adapted and survived.
- 3External geopolitical shocks rather than internal moral decay ultimately caused the fall of Constantinople in 1453.
Don't miss
Anthony Kaldellis explains how the Hippodrome of Constantinople functioned as a venue for a perpetual referendum, allowing citizens to directly check imperial power.
The brief
Historian Anthony Kaldellis reframes the 2,200-year history of the Roman Empire, arguing that the Eastern Roman or Byzantine Empire was not a separate, decaying medieval state but the direct, unbroken continuation of Rome itself.
Rather than a traditional autocracy, the empire functioned as a monarchic republic. Without a formal right to succession, emperors faced constant public pressure, with the Hippodrome of Constantinople serving as a venue for a perpetual referendum.
The state was highly resilient, unified by the Edict of Caracalla and later by Christianity. While the West collapsed in 476 AD due to a shrinking tax base and invasions, the East survived for another millennium through administrative and military reforms.
Kaldellis challenges the popular narrative of internal moral decay leading to the fall of Constantinople in 1453. Instead, he demonstrates how a series of massive, external geopolitical shocks from the Normans and Turks shattered a highly stable system.
The enduring legacy of Roman governance offers a mirror for modern times, illustrating how the persistent gap between foreign policy rhetoric and action continues to shape the trajectory of global superpowers.
What was said on this episode
35 statements · 16 positive · 7 negative · 1 mixed · 11 neutral
The Eastern Roman Empire directly continued the ancient Roman Empire in the East.
“the Eastern Roman Empire, this is the direct continuation of the ancient Roman Empire in the East”
Listen at 9:41
The Roman state lasted an extraordinarily long and historically unusual period.
“the history of the Roman state, the Roman polity, is something that lasts an extraordinarily long time. Very unique almost in history”
Listen at 10:38
Major historical dates often represent longer processes rather than discrete events.
“those are conventional dates that we use to actually capture what is in fact, a much longer process”
Listen at 19:47
Roman history is fundamentally the history of a state and political community.
“Roman history is very specifically the history of a state or a political community”
Listen at 22:03
Roman soldiers swore oaths throughout the empire’s history.
“we know that Roman soldiers swore an oath throughout all of the centuries of the empire”
Listen at 31:02
Roman law gave Jewish women greater legal rights than they had elsewhere.
“Jewish women have more rights than Jewish women do elsewhere, because where Roman law is not operative”
Listen at 32:42
East Roman emperors generally acted consistently with their stated intentions.
“my research suggests that the emperors and the authorities were generally sincere in what they said. In other words, I have found that they generally did what they said they were going to do overall”
Listen at 38:25
The Roman imperial system lacked an established hereditary right to the throne.
“ultimately it is that there is no right to the throne”
Listen at 39:47
About 46% of Constantinople’s emperors were violently overthrown.
“Something like 46% of the emperors of Constantinople are overthrown through violence”
Listen at 44:10
Emperors reduced coup risk by governing in ways that maintained popular goodwill.
“the best way to avoid that fate is to actually do the things that will make people happy so that they don't support a rebel”
Listen at 44:43
Public gatherings functioned as popular consultation and tests of political consensus.
“it is definitely a form of popular consultation and a testing of consensus”
Listen at 49:21
Caracalla’s 212 edict extended Roman citizenship to everybody in the empire.
“extended citizenship to everybody”
Listen at 57:31
Ordinary Egyptians largely did not appear to experience the third-century crisis as an everyday catastrophe.
“if you go to Egypt, for example, which is kind of out of the right. What's going on there? How are people living there? And we can see how people are living in Egypt because we have all these papyrus documents from Egypt and for the most part they don't seem to be experiencing a crisis”
Listen at 1:06:34
Diocletian successfully stabilized revenue, armies, and rebellions through administrative reforms.
“He was mostly successful. So in terms of generating revenue from a much more troubled and kind of precarious situation, sustaining large armies and putting down these rebellions and usurpations. And he was generally successful at doing that”
Listen at 1:14:26
Taxation was central to the functioning of the East Roman state.
“Taxation is the heart of it”
Listen at 1:16:02
Diocletian’s political stability enabled renewed economic and demographic growth.
“if you provide that context of stability, the economic growth, the demographic growth will return. And Diocletian created that context”
Listen at 1:21:14
Constantinople was conceived as a new eastern Rome.
“Constantinople, AKA New Rome”
Listen at 1:24:12
Constantinople’s location enabled emperors to operate between the Danube and Euphrates frontiers.
“Constantinople is right between the Danube and the Euphrates. These are two major frontiers. And so it allows emperors to move between the two”
Listen at 1:26:58
Christianity was incorporated into the Roman imperial system.
“that the religion was co opted by the imperial system”
Listen at 1:34:59
The Roman Empire likely became majority Christian in the fifth century and solidly Christian by the sixth.
“We probably can't talk about a majority Christian society until maybe the fifth century or early fifths, mid fifths. We don't have data, obviously. And we can't talk about, like a solidly Christian society until early 6th century”
Listen at 1:44:42
Christianity’s diverse forms made it highly adaptable across Roman society.
“it has this kind of manifold diversity, right, that makes it very adaptable”
Listen at 1:48:31
Christianity simultaneously intensified polarization and strengthened social unity.
“Christianity, in contrast to say, the ancient religions, is both far more polarizing but also far more powerful as a unifying force at the same time”
Listen at 1:49:12
Western Roman decline became self-reinforcing as invasions reduced tax revenue and military capacity.
“This created this kind of vicious cycle because then the Roman state lost access to the resources from those provinces, that is the taxes. And without those resources they couldn't, you know, maintain, mobilize, pay for their armies”
Listen at 2:05:06
Local communities’ continued allegiance helped the Eastern Roman Empire survive invasions.
“Ultimately, I think it's the decision made by local communities to stick with the Roman state”
Listen at 2:09:06
Justinian’s codification became the principal surviving source for Roman law.
“this is a massive work of codification and it is our main source for Roman law”
Listen at 2:41:06
Justinian’s conquests overstretched resources and weakened the empire’s subsequent defenses.
“he overstretched his resources, leaving his successors with a much more dangerous situation to defend”
Listen at 2:47:15
The Justinianic Plague’s impact was likely substantially below a 50% mortality scenario.
“I think that would have brought this society to a halt, just logistically speaking. And so I believe in a much more moderate impact”
Listen at 2:52:05
The eleventh-century crisis mainly resulted from simultaneous external attacks, not internal decay.
“I think that's what happened. I think that's the main narrative. Not that there weren't problems. There were. But no state can, medieval or ancient, can realistically survive the simultaneous attack of three very different kinds of enemies”
Listen at 3:18:59
East Roman crises were discrete, short-lived external shocks.
“the crises that this polity, this state, this society that it undergoes are a discrete number of them. I can tell you what they are, and we've talked about most of them so far. They don't last very long, and they are all sudden challenges that appear from the outside”
Listen at 3:22:01
The Eastern Roman Empire’s irreversible decline began between 1300 and 1350.
“I would say early 14th century, somewhere between 1300 and 1350, the sources of resilience begin to dry up”
Listen at 3:28:58
The Eastern Roman Empire ultimately collapsed because successive invasions exhausted its territorial fallback options.
“It's foreign invasions. More those which they could not cope with, they coped with lots of them. But, you know, all it takes is to lose to one and you lose some part of your territory, and if you keep losing enough, you won't have anything to fall back on”
Listen at 3:31:22
East Roman stability rested on responsive governance and a unified Roman-Orthodox identity.
“First is that an extraordinary effort was made by the authorities to persuade their subjects that they were ruling on their behalf. And I think for the most part actually tended to do so. And the second is that it had a very tightly unified identity as Roman and as orthodox”
Listen at 3:36:23
Governments should invest in institutions that benefit most subjects over the long term.
“investing in institutions that work for the majority of your subjects”
Listen at 3:41:34
Human motivations and behavioral types remain broadly consistent across historical societies.
“more or less, human beings are going to. More or less they're going to be after. Right. They love and they hate and they have ambitions and they're incompetent. And you find the whole range of the whole gamut of diversity pretty much in every, any group of about 20 or 30 people”
Listen at 3:48:48
Many contemporary technological and civilizational problems are solvable if elites are restrained.
“I think they're solvable problems to a certain degree. Like, if we can rein in some elites, a lot of these problems can be fixed”
Listen at 3:55:16
Statements are attributed to the speaker as said on the episode and reflect their view at the time, not PodLume's. They are not advice.