Oct 20, 2026 · 53 min
McFaul warns Trump’s Russia policy risks abandoning democratic alliances
Michael McFaul: Trump Is Just 'Fine' with Mass Murder
The discussion connects civilian attacks in Ukraine to a broader foreign-policy shift that could reward aggression and weaken democratic partnerships.
- 1Putin’s war aims extend beyond territory, seeking to deny Ukrainian nationhood and restore Russian influence over neighboring states.
- 2The proposed surrender of Donetsk would sacrifice Ukraine’s defensive line while leaving Russia’s wider ambitions unresolved.
- 3Treating Putin as a trustworthy negotiating partner reflects a spheres-of-influence worldview that sidelines Ukraine and democratic allies.
Don't miss
McFaul argues that dividing Ukraine through a great-power deal would resemble an imperial carve-up rather than a legitimate peace settlement.
The brief
Tim Miller and Michael McFaul challenge the realist assumption that states act only from rational self-interest, arguing that ideology and historical ambition shape both Putin’s Russia and Trump’s foreign policy.
McFaul describes Russia’s attacks on Ukrainian civilians as part of a campaign tied to Putin’s denial of Ukrainian nationhood, while Washington minimizes the violence and pressures Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
The conversation turns to missile interceptors, Kirill Dmitriev’s negotiations, and Steve Witkoff’s connections as signs that diplomacy may be mixing strategic weakness with commercial interests.
The proposed surrender of all Donetsk becomes the episode’s central test: it would give up a crucial defensive line without resolving Russia’s broader ambitions in Ukraine.
McFaul says a settlement imposed through Russian and American spheres of influence would resemble an imperial carve-up, marking a retreat from democratic alliances and U.S. leadership.
What was said on this episode
42 statements · 5 positive · 34 negative · 3 neutral
Concessions to Putin will not reliably make him friendly or cooperative.
“You cut off assistance to Ukraine. He's going to be our friend. You say Ukraine can never be in NATO. He's going to be our friend.”
Listen at 2:43
Trump’s conciliatory approach toward Putin has harmed Ukraine, Europe, and American interests.
“I don't think it's ended very well for the Ukrainians, for the Europeans, or most importantly for me, for Americans and our national interests.”
Listen at 3:08
Putin remains committed to his original objectives in the Ukraine war.
“he's just locked into his original wartime objectives”
Listen at 4:01
Putin’s stated objective was to unite Slavic peoples under Russian influence.
“he wanted to unite the Slavic people”
Listen at 4:20
Putin sought proxy control over Ukrainian territory through occupying forces.
“he wanted to rule by proxy the territory of Ukraine with his occupied forces”
Listen at 4:29
Putin sought to demilitarize Ukraine.
“he wanted to demilitarize Ukraine”
Listen at 4:44
Putin sought to halt NATO expansion or activity.
“And fourth, stop NATO.”
Listen at 4:46
Putin has failed to achieve his original Ukraine war objectives.
“he's failed at all of them”
Listen at 4:50
Trump’s involvement has improved Putin’s strategic position in the war.
“Trump has thrown him this lifeline by getting involved, saying he's going to end the war.”
Listen at 5:51
Giving Russia major concessions will not produce the desired cooperation.
“Give the other side everything they want and then hope they'll do what you want. I've negotiated with the Russians. It most certainly doesn't work with the Russians.”
Listen at 6:09
Putin has launched a terrorist campaign against Ukrainian civilians and infrastructure.
“Putin has now launched this terrorist campaign.”
Listen at 7:02
Putin expects attacks on Ukraine to pressure Ukrainian society into demanding a settlement.
“his theory is in doing this, Ukrainian society will rise up and say, Zelensky, we got to cut a deal.”
Listen at 7:17
Russian bombardment, aided by Trump, is not forcing Ukraine to capitulate.
“the idea that they're going to bomb them into capitulation, aided by Trump is not working.”
Listen at 9:44
Trump is supporting Russia’s campaign against Ukrainian civilians.
“He's supporting. This terrorist campaign.”
Listen at 10:08
A U.S.-linked actor is helping Putin kill civilians by restricting Ukraine’s defensive intelligence.
“somebody's helping Putin now kill those civilians by turning off their ability to see these weapons.”
Listen at 13:08
Ukraine no longer has intelligence previously used to defend civilians from Russian rockets.
“the intelligence that Ukrainians used to have to help defend their civilians against these rockets, they don't have now.”
Listen at 13:36
Marco Rubio abandoned his prior Russia-hawk positions to remain in Trump’s administration.
“he's just completely abandoned it to be in the Trump administration.”
Listen at 14:30
Marco Rubio currently appears ineffective as a cabinet member.
“he doesn't look like a very effective member of the cabinet right now.”
Listen at 15:04
The administration’s attacks on Zelensky contradict an intention to protect Ukraine.
“if they wanted to fix it, they couldn't be leaning in to try to fix it and not attacking the guy in the country that they're supposedly are trying to help.”
Listen at 16:38
“he just doesn't he doesn't have that kind of support right now.”
Listen at 18:51
Missile interceptors supplied to Ukraine are defensive weapons targeting Russian missiles and drones.
“these interceptors are defensive weapons. They're not going to be shot at Russians. They're going to be shot at Russian missiles and Russian drones.”
Listen at 22:18
Kirill Dmitriev and Russian officials seek business deals with Trump’s team.
“they want to do business with Team Trump.”
Listen at 24:57
Kirill Dmitriev proposed $14 trillion in potential joint ventures with the United States.
“At one point, he floated a number of $14 trillion in joint ventures that we can do together.”
Listen at 26:07
Trump-linked actors and Russia are beginning business deals before the war ends.
“they're now starting to do the deals without the war ending.”
Listen at 26:30
Steve Witkoff gives Putin repeated concessions while pressuring Zelensky.
“two things are striking. He just gives him everything he wants, concession after concession, and then puts some pressure on Zelensky.”
Listen at 27:46
Putin interprets excessive deference and concessions as weakness.
“he looks at that as weakness.”
Listen at 29:12
Putin accepts diplomatic concessions without reciprocating meaningfully.
“He just pockets your concession”
Listen at 29:20
Dmitriev’s proposal conditions a ceasefire on Ukraine surrendering Donbass.
“His big thing is, give us Donbass, and we can then convince the big boss for a ceasefire.”
Listen at 35:50
Ukraine should not surrender Donetsk cities because doing so would cause future warfare.
“a real leader would say, and under no circumstances should we give. Putin, those cities, because that would lead to more warfare in the future.”
Listen at 37:43
Putin and Trump view international politics through spheres of influence.
“Putin, like Trump, thinks in kind of 18th century, 19th century terms, right? Spheres of influence.”
Listen at 39:38
A proposed Ukraine settlement excludes Ukrainian and democratic representation.
“there's nobody representing Ukraine or the free world.”
Listen at 40:29
A settlement excluding Ukraine and the free world would be disastrous.
“That would be a horrible outcome.”
Listen at 40:37
Putin and Xi Jinping currently maintain a close relationship.
“Putin and Xi Jinping, they are tight.”
Listen at 40:51
China supplied the rocket engine used in Russia’s Garan 5 weapon.
“the engine for that, the rocket engine from that came from China.”
Listen at 41:28
Xi Jinping will ultimately support Putin in a major confrontation.
“when push comes to shove, Xi Jinping's firmly with Putin.”
Listen at 43:42
Trump’s war against Iran benefited Putin strategically.
“Trump's war against Iran was a giant, another gift to Putin”
Listen at 44:22
Higher global oil prices generate substantial revenue for Russia.
“oil prices went up all over the world. Russia makes billions and billions of dollars off of that.”
Listen at 44:28
Russia is reportedly providing intelligence assistance to Iran.
“there's a lot of reporting out there that the Russians are helping Iran with intelligence.”
Listen at 45:42
Russia will help Iran fight the United States without directly entering its war.
“Are they going to help Iran fight us? Absolutely.”
Listen at 46:00
Autocratic states coordinate their policies and assistance.
“The autocrats are all coordinated.”
Listen at 47:18
Trump is abandoning America’s traditional leadership of the free world.
“He's abandoning this idea that we are the leader of the free world.”
Listen at 48:46
J.D. Vance’s conduct contradicts his claimed opposition to foreign political interference.
“the notion that he doesn't want to intermeddle in the internal affairs of countries, obviously that's not a principle of his.”
Listen at 50:42
Statements are attributed to the speaker as said on the episode and reflect their view at the time, not PodLume's. They are not advice.
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